Hi, welcome to the You Can Quit Smoking podcast, where we go over stories of success with overcoming smoking addiction. Many people have moved through this radical transformation and use smoking as an opportunity for inner growth, with deeper self-awareness and a greater capacity for compassion. So many have done it and you can quit smoking, too. I'm your host, Jessi Hartnett, founder of Honor Your Heart.

Jessi:

Hey everyone, welcome back. I'm here with Tracy “The Herb Guy” Mitchell. Tracy, thank you so much for being here. Can you introduce yourself to the audience?


Tracy:

Hi, I'm Tracy Mitchell. I am technically a certified holistic and integrated health specialist. But I just tell everybody I'm an herbalist. It's a lot easier to understand.


I'm a former smoker and I had a bit of a unique way of quitting my smoking. So, I thought maybe I'd share that story today.


Jessi:

Yeah, I'd love to hear how it worked for you. So, what's your story with smoking?


Tracy:

I had my first cigarette when I was like five and, you know, a long time ago. It was a different age. And I remember what it was to this day. It was a Kool cigarette. And in my mind I was like, "Well, how could this be cool because it burns so bad?" Menthol, right?


So, as a kid, it was on and off. Whenever we'd steal one from mom or whatever. Every now and then she'd buy a carton and you'd steal a pack. I didn't really start smoking smoking until I was about 16 when I got my license and my car. So, I wasn't around home all the time.


I had the luxury of being able to have cigarettes whenever I wanted. Back then, they weren't so big on carding people. They didn't really care. If you were a regular at a certain store, they would just sell you cigarettes. And it wasn't until I turned like I was 24 or 25 that they really started cracking down on that kind of stuff.


So, the ease of getting tobacco was somewhat of a factor when I was younger. I had a mom that smoked. And nobody really cared back then. I’d take a note in saying, “Buying them for my mom”. They didn't have an issue with it back then. So, I did that for God, I don't know, 30 years. I smoked for more than 30 years.


And the day that I quit smoking tobacco was when my then wife had a heart attack right in front of me. It was a near fatal heart attack. We had to administer CPR until the squad arrived and it was bad.


And that was certainly a wakeup call. You see your loved one and you're the one that's having to give them CPR. It certainly made me change my priorities.


And being an herbalist, I've been an herbalist for more than 30 years, I was aware. It wasn't like I was smoking, not aware of what it was doing to my body. I was fully aware. I knew on a biological level, physiological level, I understood. I didn't care.


My solution usually was, “I have an herb for that if I got sick.” And as an herbalist, that could be kind of a dangerous mentality. “I have an herb for that.” So, you know, it kind of gives you an excuse to do what you want. I can fix it if it's a problem. And that's what I did for years with the smoking.


But by that point, I was actively rolling our cigarettes for us. I made the cigarettes every day. After she got back from the hospital and everything. And I decided, “Well, maybe smoking isn't such a good idea.” I mean, I don't want to be that guy, you know, the guy that she had to be with the heart attack.


So, I was having a hard time coming up with a solution. Because I already know me and I knew that with my own behavior, my own personality that there was zero chance I was just going to be able to stop. Like, I'm a realist, too.


Now, of course, I'd stopped for like basic training and times when you weren't allowed to smoke. Of course, I stopped because it just wasn't available. And I had other things on my mind, like push-ups. But when it came to that, I knew I wasn't going to necessarily change the behavior.


Because I understand that the smoking itself wasn't as big of an issue as the hand-to-mouth habit, right? And this is really more of a habit when it comes to smoking than the nicotine. The nicotine is fairly easy to break. I knew this logically. It's this habit that's hard to break.


So, I was like, man, “I don't really want to quit.” So, I just started smoking herbs, grabbed some herbs. And the good thing about having this kind of knowledge is I knew which herbs were safe to smoke, which is pretty much anything in the yard. Like you just grab anything in the yard. Just go ahead and dry it and kind of crunch it up a bit, mix them all together and put them in your tubes and you have a cigarette.


I think I was able to get away from the nicotine addiction part of it because my brain really couldn't tell the difference, right? As far as my body was concerned, I was still smoking. So I didn't get the irritability. I didn't get any of that. And as an ancillary effect, I was also getting some of the benefits of the herbs.


And I was somewhat selective in the herbs that I picked. So I picked herbs like mullen leaf or horehound herb. And when you burn them, you'll still get some of the constituents. So mullen is a good expectorant. It helps to clean out your lungs. Horehound is very similar.


I would add in catnip or peppermint, get that menthol, to get the coughing going. And dandelion, plantain. I mean, you name it, man. I was just having a cigarette that had 10 different herbs in it. And I knew that that was my substitute for the tobacco. And I really got away from having the nicotine cravings, right?


Because from a physiological perspective, my brain clearly couldn't tell the difference. Because I knew I wasn't getting antsy. I wasn't having any of the issues. So, I think as far as my body was concerned, it thought it was still getting the nicotine because it was still getting the smoke. And if there were any of those types of side effects, I didn't notice them.


I didn't notice any difference when I went to smoke. Even in the taste, I mean, I've never liked the taste of smoke. Never. I've never liked it. So, I mean, it all tastes like crap. And so, yeah, it was like, "Oh, this is what I have to do.” And I did that for about a year and I just got tired.


I was thinking about it. I was like, “Well, you know, I'm not really getting any benefit out of this other than I'm wasting a half an hour of my day every day to make these cigarettes to come back and do this again tomorrow.” At that point, I just put the machine away. I was like, “Okay, I'm done. I'm just too tired of this to continue doing it.”


So, I had to get to the habit part of it at that point because I still had the hand-to-mouth. That hand-to- mouth was kind of tricky. Most people snack.And ultimately, what I ended up doing is there are herbs that you can use that help with addictive type behavior whether it's through a chemical process or just through habitual use.


And passion flower is the one that I used a lot. It's a nervine so it impacts the nervous system itself. But it can also, if you can stay conscious of it, help to rewire that part of your brain too a little bit and make it a little bit easier to quit.


So every now and then, I mean, it's not from a habit, but every now and then I'll find myself maybe chewing on a pen or something. But nothing, it doesn't last very long. Just as I'm thinking, I might chew a pen. But it's not this habit. It's more of like a lollipop.


And that's really how I went about fixing the problem was I just changed the habit. And then once the nicotine part of it was done, then I knew at that point it was only going to be down to stopping that hand-to-mouth stuff. And that took about a month for me to get used to not looking for my cigarettes.
“There's no cigarettes.” “Going to the bathroom. Got to grab a Oh, nope. I guess I'm not doing that anymore.” So, it was more of the, “Oh, I forgot my cigarettes.” That was more of my habit when I was usually like, “Oh yeah, I don't have those anymore.”


But now I don't even think about it. Like, I don't like look around on the counter for my last smoke or or anything like that. I've been able to change that behavior over 2 years, 3 years. Well, no. Going on four years, I guess. Yeah. I mean, that's really how I went about doing it.


And not saying anybody else should start smoking something else, but that was what helped me. It's easier to get past that nicotine, I think, because your body doesn't necessarily know the difference.


Jessi:

Yeah, that is so wild. I'm really amazed that you didn't have any withdrawal effects just from switching. Because I believe that most of it is psychological and emotional and I think that's a good case for that.


That if you think that you're getting that routine, there's no endorphin crash essentially. So, that's very interesting.


Tracy:

Right. Now, don't get me wrong. I know that some of the herbs that I had, maybe some of those compounds would have helped to alleviate some of that. But I highly doubt it to be fair. If I look at it fairly, I would really say it was more placebo than anything.



And placebo is pretty powerful anyway. We know quite a bit about it. Well, we don't know enough about it, but I have no doubt that it was really more placebo. If somebody held my feet to the fire, I really can't say that I did it myself. But my brain thought it was. It couldn't tell the difference.


Jessi:

So, I know that that heart attack, that sounds like a really hard event to go through. And I can imagine that was really stressful and scary. Before then you hadn't made any serious attempts to quit?


Tracy:

No, I never really worried about it. I guess I get somewhat arrogant in knowing that, “Oh well, if this or this or this happens, like I know that I have something that I can fix that with.” So, I tend not to have those worries and that can be not good really. You know, I'm not saying it's a good thing.


I'm just saying that sometimes I overlook things that I probably should pay more attention to. kind of like a mechanic. You know, a lot of them have cars that are bad. Or a carpenter has houses that are broken, right? As an herbalist… I mean, I'm not broken, but you know, I don't necessarily do every single thing that I teach.


My goal is to teach people how to live healthy for themselves, right? And I mean, I'm pretty healthy, don't get me wrong. But I don't have the Greek God body or anything like that. I think that if you spend more time worrying about that stuff, you're actually going to add more stress. Which is counterintuitive. So, I tend not to worry about those kinds of things. And yeah, though I should, to be fair, I really should. I just don't.


Jessi:

Well, I just think it's really neat that you were able to quit essentially on your first try then.


Tracy:

Right? I never even looked at it that way to be fair. From my perspective, it was like it was a behavior that once you see the end result of what that could really be.


I mean, you look at it. We had a similar lifestyle. We both smoked, we both had drank, things like that. And to watch it happen to her.


And she had what was called the widow maker. So, it was like 95% of her artery was blocked. And it was a miracle that she lived at all.


Jessi:

Wow.


Tracy:

So when she came out, I was like, “Man.” And then I saw what she had to go through to recover. And it's like, “Yeah, I don't want to be that guy. I don't want that to be me.”


And so that visual probably helped a lot. That was very motivating.


Jessi:

It's pretty emotional, too.


Tracy:

Yeah. It makes me more willing to want to encourage people to let them know that even if it can be a hard thing for you. Because I know how hard it is, things like that, for me to quit. If it's like that for me, I can only imagine a lot of other people have very similar difficulties. So to share that story with people gives them a little bit of hope.


And yeah, I mean, is it necessarily the best option for quitting? Well, maybe not. But if you've tried other methods and they haven't worked, it’s something to look at at the very least.


Jessi at midroll:

I hope today's guest is giving you a new perspective on what is possible. If you want to make sure you never miss a story like this one, take a quick second right now to hit the follow or subscribe button on your app. Not only does it ensure you get a fresh dose of inspiration every week, but it also helps the 'podcast robots' realize this show is worth putting in front of new people who might be struggling.


It only takes a second to tap that button, and it helps us keep this community growing. Let's head back to the episode.


Jessi:

Yeah. And the herbs are an addictive substance. Like a lot of people will swap out. They'll go to vaping. So, I think that's a big difference.


Tracy:

And then I think that was what made it so much easier to do the whole quitting thing, right? Because within the first 21 days, give or take, my body had gotten used to not having the nicotine. So, I had almost 11 and 1/2 months of it not being in my system.


So, when I actually did quit, there was no shock to my system other than a lot of the coughing, to get up the rest of the residue. I still cough today. I mean, I still get stuff out today.


But a lot of people were like, "What do you smoke?" And I told them and everybody kind of rolled their eyes. Because a lot of people that know me, they understand that I'm an herbalist. I think a lot of them don't necessarily understand what that means.


And a lot of the stuff we have around us, we can use. In this case, I just used it a bit differently than just making a tea out of it.


And if you look at the history, Native Americans would smoke almost anything. They had that habit of smoking. But they smoked herbs, blends of herbs. Some of it was ceremonial. Some of it was religious. But some of it is just because they just wanted to smoke things.
They had the clay pipes and their clay pipes as a piece. And when that ended they’d just break off the end until it was gone and they make another one.


And there are some cases, very limited, but there are some cases where you actually use the smoke of an herb as part of the…. I hate to use the word treatment, but as part of the treatment or part of the support system you're trying to use. Resins are a good example of that. And some kinds of aroma therapy.


Rather than using essential oils, they'll use the resins and burn them as incense. So, you're still getting the compounds out of it. You're getting some benefit. Minimal, but some benefit.


Jessi:

Yeah. So, I'm wondering what gains have you noticed then since stopping smoking?


Tracy:

Clearly, you have better breathing. My lungs aren't constantly clouded with pollution that I'm adding myself. I'm just getting residual pollution that's in the air. Easier to exercise. I do that in spurts, too.



I should be more consistent with it, to be fair, but I work a full-time job. I work at a factory and then I do social media as my second virtual full-time job. I have my own website. I sell products and stuff, but so I don't really have time.


And I hear people tell me, "I don't have time." And I'm like, "Oh, yes, you have time." So, I can't use that as an excuse,if I tell other people you've got time.


So, it certainly gives you more energy. You're not quite as nervous all the time. With nicotine being a stimulant, it does tend to overstimulate your nervous system.


So, people that smoke a lot say, “Oh, I smoke and it'll calm me down.” Well, you're just rewiring your nervous system again. Every time you have that nicotine, it gets right back into your nervous system and causes disruptive patterns.


So, I’m maybe not as erratic or manic sometimes because you don't have that constant. It's almost like a dopamine fix. It does get into your connections in your brain and it will cause disruption if you continue to use it. But when you stop, you'll have some clarity of thought. At least I have a little bit more clarity of thought.


Jessi:

Same. Yeah. I've definitely noticed a lot of differences. They didn't show up overnight, but over time it's just like, “Wow.” Especially energy. That was one of the biggest ones for me.


Tracy:

Right. People don't realize even though nicotine is technically a stimulant, it's the constant pollution in the lungs that causes a lot of that disruption as far as your energy patterns go. Because you're not getting optimized oxygen and your heart has to work harder, right? So that has a definite impact on the body.


And, I didn't think about it when I was smoking until I watched my wife have a heart attack. “Oh well, hey, look at all that smoking did for you. That's not good.” And she quit immediately. I smoked cigarettes again for maybe another week after her. Then I was like, “Yeah, no, I think I'm good.”


So that was how I chose to quit. I knew that eventually I had to make a conscious effort. I'm getting older too and the older you get the harder it is to fix things if you've been doing them for years. At least for me, I can't speak for everybody., But for me it's the older I get and more ingrained in my habits, the more difficult it can be to stop doing that.


Jessi:

Yeah. And do you feel that kind of lightness from just not having that habit? Do you find more time or just more freedom?


Tracy:

Well, definitely more time. Now I'm not spending half an hour a day making my cigarettes. That equates out to three and a half hours a week and 14 hours a month. That's a lot of time.


And so I've found that there are blends of herbs you can put together. Because I've had a lot of clients over the years say, “Hey, I need something to help with the mental part of it.” And they weren't necessarily willing to do the herbal cigarettes because they don't necessarily have a half an hour time a day to make their own.


So I did make blends for a while where they were stop smoking blends. You had the blend to smoke and then the blend for tea. Because there are some teas that you can take that can help break up that pattern.


So, passion flower, that I mentioned earlier, has shown in studies that it's used to help fight not only nicotine addiction but some of the harder addictions like alcohol. Because it helps to break up those addiction centers in the brain and make it easier.


Chicory root is another good one for that. You use those in conjunction. Use them together as a blend with a few other herbs for your kidneys and your liver to get the detox pathways flowing.


And I think you'll find that'll make it a little easier to quit too because once you start removing the toxins, your body's less required to have them, right? And if you can get them out quicker, your body will be in an easier position to be able to do that detox.


So, I'll go through my notes and see if I can find that blend. I did that video like years ago to blend as a tea. You could turn it into a tincture if you wanted or you could get the powdered herbs and make capsules out of it.


I mean, in reality, I could probably make a product out of it again, but I just never thought about it. And most people, you can just buy those herbs. They're really cheap. You get them for a couple bucks an ounce and make your blend. There's like five herbs in it.


You’d probably get enough tea for at least three or four months worth of just one or two cups a day. It's not something to necessarily replace the cigarette habit. Otherwise, you'd be in the bathroom a lot. But it would be good to help with the brain part of it.


If I remember, if you have somewhere I can write that, I'll send you the list and then you can post it for everybody. Then they can have that list and make their own tea. I break my tea up into parts. So that means that if somebody decides to make the blend, if you start with a teaspoon, every teaspoon is a part. If you start with an ounce, every ounce is a part.


And I'll give you that. Actually, I like to get my recipes out. So yeah, I'll give you guys that recipe and share it with you guys.


Jessi:

Yeah, sure.


Tracy:

And this is one of those herbal teas that don't taste too bad. So most of them taste awful, but this one's not so bad.


Jessi:

No kidding. Yeah.


I'm wondering more about the emotional side of things. So a lot of people have an emotional attachment to smoking. There are certain things that'll trigger people to have cravings, things like stress or fear or whatever it would be.


I’m wondering if any of that has come up for you since quitting. Do you have any kind of cravings around? Or have you been able to kind of navigate those tough emotions a little bit differently after quitting?


Tracy:

Well, strangely enough, after I got divorced, a lot of those tough emotions went away. So, I don't have nearly as much stress and I haven't for a few years. And I haven't been in one of those situations or I haven't had a stressful situation enough for me to go, "God, I wish I could have a cigarette."


I'm not saying life isn't stressful, but luckily for me, I don't think there was ever like an emotional attachment. It was just something that I had done over started so young, five years old.


Well, that was my cousin. I saw him smoking and I was like, “Well geez, if he's smoking, I guess I could too”. And we spent a lot of time alone, just me and my two cousins growing up.


And he was a little bit carefree and about seven or eight years older than I was. So, he got all the good stuff. He would obviously share it with his little cousin. And I was a big dummy and was like, “Oh yeah, I'll have a cigarette. Sounds good.”


And I could never understand. Like nobody would ever explain those kinds of things to me when I was growing up. It really wasn't anything emotional. It was just the habit of doing it. I'd done it for so long after a while. It was part of being, it what I was doing.


You know, most people who knew me usually saw me with a cigarette in my mouth. And after I quit, people were like, "Don't you smoke?" And, “You've always smoked.” And then,” Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Had a heart attack. I guess that's a good reason to quit.” So, they finally caught on, too.


But yeah, I didn't realize it until that time. It was more odd for them to see me without a cigarette than it was for them to see me with one.


Jessi:

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.


Tracy:

Yeah. Now, it'd be odd if they saw me with a cigarette, they'd be like, "What?" Luckily, I haven't had that.


And as far as like those instant cravings go, man, that can be tough. That could be a tough one. I mean, there are some natural things that you can do, like some breath work techniques, and things like that.


But to be fair, the average person doesn't think of that stuff when they're in the midst of that crisis. It can be kind of hard to think of, “Oh, what was that breathing technique again? What can I do?”


Jessi:

Yeah, it takes practice.


Tracy:

There are little things you can do, right? You can get a rubber band. If the craving gets too bad, you can snap the rubber band. Like you put on your wrist. Snap it on the back of your wrist, right? To put your mind back in that mindset.


But that's inconvenient. And then if you start doing it in public, people are like, "What the heck's wrong with that guy? Why does he keep snapping himself with a rubber band?" But, I mean, if it works to disrupt that pattern though, it's ultimately worth it in the long run. Little things you can do that could help to trip up that pattern in your mind.


Jessi:

Definitely. So, you've had a lot in here. I'm just wondering to close out if someone is struggling, maybe they're not like you. Maybe they've tried to quit. They’ve not been successful. They keep coming back. They're kind of feeling stuck. What words of advice would you have for them?


Tracy:

Don't ever give up. It's easy to say, "Oh, I just can't do it to quit." But one of my taglines that I use is being healthy isn't complicated, but it's not always convenient. It can be an inconvenience, right?


But if it's a pattern you've developed over years, you can't expect to stop it tomorrow. It's a habit you're trying to break. So don't be discouraged. Even if you've tried 10 times, your mind will get to a point where it’s like, “Okay, I just don't want to do this anymore.”


But if you give up and say, "Well, I can never do it." Your mindset is relevant, too. When you go into it, don't go into it thinking you can't do it. And I would say positive affirmations if you can tell yourself every day.


And it sounds silly, but from a psychological aspect, it does work. With negative self-talk, your brain can't tell the difference whether you're saying it to you or somebody else is saying it to you.


Well, with positive self-talk, it works the exact same way. So, if you say that and you constantly reinforce that self-talk with your brain, eventually your brain's going to start to believe it. But you have to make sure you're continually reinforcing that in your head.


And then if you just never give up, you just keep doing it. Eventually, you're going to succeed. Like, you can't fail forever. Eventually, you'll get it. Don't be discouraged is all I would say.


I know I would have been discouraged if I had just tried to quit cold turkey because I wouldn't have done it. I know me. I know I wouldn't have. I just wouldn't have quit. So, yeah, don't be discouraged. Just keep doing what you're doing.


And if there's a case where you feel like you need outside help, there are some natural solutions. There are some herbs. You could just drink a cup of tea.


Passion flower, I'll say it one more time. Just do some research on passion flower. You'll see that they've done tons of studies on how that can help impact the brain from nicotine addiction in particular. That's about all the advice I could give you. Just keep going.


Jessi:

That is great advice. Wise words. Thank you.


Tracy:

You're very welcome. I'm glad you guys had me. It was really awesome.


Jessi:

Oh, it was so great having you. And I'm wondering people that want to learn more about herbalism, more about your work, where can they find you?


Tracy:

Well, I'm available over on Instagram, Science with Nature. I’m on TikTok.


I have Facebook. On Facebook, I'm Earthbound Greens. That's my own product line of herbal products.


And I have a Patreon page. Patreon/theherbguy. That's where I teach more advanced herbalism type of content. And all the content that I'm not allowed to talk about on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. There's a lot of content that I just can't talk about on those platforms. So, I can freely discuss that on Patreon. Well, maybe not free, but I'm allowed to talk about it, not get censored.


Jessi:

Awesome.


Tracy:

Yeah, those are the best places to find me.


Jessi:

Well, I'll be around trying to learn more myself. Very interesting stuff.


Tracy:

I think you'll like it. It's a lot of fun.


Jessi:

Well, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your story with us. It's a hard thing for a lot of people to talk about. And I like that you brought up that like, “Hey, we all have these different sides of us and sometimes we know something isn't good for us. But we make that choice anyway and then decide to change.”


And I just think there's a lot of power in that. And thank you so much.


Tracy:

You're very welcome. And if you guys ever need any recipes or anything, reach out and I'll put together some recipes for you.


Jessi:

Awesome.


Tracy:

And send them your way. And you can share them with all your people.


Jessi:

Well, thank you. Take care, everyone.


Tracy:

You're very welcome.


Jessi:

See you next time, guys.


Tracy:

All right. Bye-bye.



End of Interview

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