Hi, welcome to the You Can Quit Smoking podcast, where we go over stories of success with overcoming smoking addiction. Many people have moved through this radical transformation and use smoking as an opportunity for inner growth, with deeper self-awareness and a greater capacity for compassion. So many have done it and you can quit smoking, too. I'm your host, Jessi Hartnett, founder of Honor Your Heart.

Jessi:

Hey everyone, welcome back. I'm here today with Emily. Emily, can you introduce yourself?


Emily:

Hi, my name is Emily Andrews. I'm from Northern Ontario, Canada. I'm an author and February 6th will make it six years since I quit smoking.


Jessi:

Nice. Congratulations. Talk to us about your story. What's your story with smoking?


Emily:

Well, I started around 12 years old. They always said, “You didn't inhale enough.” So, it wasn't real smoking. So, when I started getting the preapproved inhales from friends, then I think I was only really smoking at 14 or 15.


But from there, it was about a pack a day. When I was drinking at the same time, we were getting up to two packs a day. And I've done some pretty awful things to myself now that I think about it.


At one point, I was on birth control and I was smoking. I ended up getting five blood clots between both lungs and I was 23 years old. I was in the hospital for 2 weeks. They tried to get me to stop smoking then. I didn't. I was on blood thinners for six months. They tried to get me to stop smoking then. I didn't.


I ended up getting surgery in my thirties to get a hysterectomy. They wouldn't let me out of the hospital to smoke and they said, "Okay, now you can quit." And I didn't. And it took until 2020.


So, I was probably the first person in my small town to get COVID. And I say probably because they weren't testing for it at that time. I had all the symptoms, but they didn't know. And they had the intubation and everything ready for me to go because they didn't think I was going to make it through the night.


I had a really bad coughing fit and the nurse had to sit with me. And I don't know what it was because it's not like I hadn't had a bad coughing fit before. It's not like bad things hadn't happened to my lungs before.


But that coughing fit where I'm telling the nurse, “I can't do this.” I'm talking but in my mind I'm like, “I'm never going to breathe again.” And she says, "Yes, you will. Just keep coughing." And she's patting my back and I like, "I can never do this again. This is now my limit."


And it hurt that that had to be the limit. I wish it was some decision I made innately knowing this was the best decision for me. But I made it out of complete and utter fear.


But then I made the mistake of telling the doctors that I wanted to quit smoking when I came out. So they started giving me nicotine patches. They gave me a higher dose than what I should have gotten given what I was smoking at that time. So, I came out of the hospital wanting to smoke even more. There's lots of reasons I didn't, but access was a big one.


Because the day I got out of the hospital, my husband went into the hospital for the same thing. And if he can't drive me to get smokes, I'm not asking anyone else. And I don't want him to come home to having cigarettes in the house. Because if we're going to do this, we’ve got to try to do it together.


And I was so lucky that I had a partner who was on board to do it at the same time as me. Because I can't imagine doing it alone. I just can't. If you have someone who's blowing smoke in your face, I'm being dramatic here, but I think it would have felt like a betrayal almost. But like I said, he was completely on board.


He thought he was having the quitter’s flu. And ever since I talked about doing this podcast with you, I've been overanalyzing everything because that's what I'm good at. So, why stop? And I've been analyzing the fact that he didn't go to the hospital at first when he started to feel sick when I was in the hospital because he thought he was having the quitter's flu.


Now, we call it withdrawals when it's heroin. We call it withdrawals when it's alcohol. But we say it's a quitter's flu and you'll just get over it when it's cigarettes. It makes it sound so trite and so small when it really isn't. And that it makes you feel like a failure when you can't get over this little flu. I hope someone somewhere who has more power than me in the world changes that verbiage and calls it what it is. It's withdrawal from nicotine.


I'm so glad that he did end up going to the hospital. We both ended up better. I ended up with scarring on my lungs. So, the fact that I quit smoking was good for me. But what held me up was pure unadulterated stubbornness.


Because once I was out of the hospital, I was already 2 weeks without. And then when my husband came out, I was already 3 weeks without. And then, we ended up with a month. And I wanted a cigarette. Oh, I wanted one so badly.


And then I kept thinking, “Well, just because your body wants one doesn't mean you have to have one. Like, come on, get over it.” So, I said, "Okay, I'll do another day." And then every time that.Stubbornness will take you far in life. I wish I had it when I was younger. My mom said I did, but I didn't have it like I do now.


So, where I'm at now is, yes, sometimes I do have cravings, unfortunately. Still, six years later, I almost had one a couple of months ago. So, in Canada, when you go to the reservation, you can get cheaper cigarettes, and they'll actually have free samples of cigarettes. I hadn't gone to the reservation in years, but someone needed me to go with them. And I'm looking at it, it was right there.


And I'll be honest, I used to have these awful nightmares. Because I met a woman who had quit for 2 years. She was doing fine. And one day her car was in the shop and her friend said she'd give her a ride home.


So she's sitting in the car waiting for her friend and her friend's cigarettes were on the dash. And it was just muscle memory. She reached out, lit a cigarette. She had it halfway done before she realized what she had done and then she couldn't quit again. That had been three years prior to me meeting her.


And I had so many nightmares of me doing that where I'd be smoking like, "Wait, I quit. I can't believe I've done this to myself again." And yeah, these things are not normal. The more you think about it, smoking is not normal. We have normalized it way too much.


Jessi:

Yeah, that happens. That's expected especially when you start at 12 like we did. It seems like a normal part of your life. So, how have you adjusted to not having it? Do you feel like you're missing something?


Like you said, you have some cravings sometimes, but have you found a new way with it, a new identity?


Emily:

I miss the social aspect a little bit. But the thing I miss the most is… I wish it was socially acceptable for me to say, “You know what? I need a break from you. Yes, this group, let me step away, go outside, take a breather, and then come back in.” If you do that, you're a rude person. But if I said I was going out for a smoke, everyone would be fine with it.


So, I missed being able to step away. And I didn't realize I wasn't stepping away because I needed a smoke. I was stepping away because I needed the break from a large social gathering. So that was a hard one to learn.


Sometimes I don't care anymore if I'm rude. And I think that unfortunately comes with age. So I feel worse for younger people. But now I don't care. It's like, “I need my break. Let mama go outside.”


Jessi:

And what happens when you do that? Do people get upset with you?


Emily:

Yes. It depends on the group I'm with. Some people it's like, "Oh, that's just Emily. Let her do what she wants”. And with other people I can't. They’re like, “Why would you do that?”


Someone actually said like, "Oh, are we boring you?" “No, you're not boring me. Just don't make me explain this.”


Jessi:

Yeah, that's rough. Yeah, because I found that I thought it would be a big thing to take those breaks. But you have to do it. If you have social anxiety or just are an introvert, whatever it is for you, it's important to speak up for yourself. And you don't have to hurt yourself to do that.


Emily:

Yes. And again, it's so sad that this has to be learned later on in life. And again, that was actually something else that I was overanalyzing.


So, I don't know if your listeners know that one of the questions you ask is, "What is something that you want to add to the conversation?" And I had put down the aesthetic of smokers when it comes to being a writer because I am a writer. And as soon as I sent that off, I was thinking, why did I put that there? And I started thinking about it more and more.
And I don't think it's an aesthetic. I think it's a symbol.


And I see it more now when I'm looking at the younger kids who smoke. I truly believe this is what it is. There are ways to numb pain through cigarettes, alcohol, things like that. But cigarettes don't numb pain. There's no benefit to it. But the commonality is nobody picks up a cigarette because their life is going great.


Jessi:

Mhm.


Emily:

I think it is a true symbol of depression, anxiety, and maybe any other mental illness that you want to throw in. But I'll stick with depression, and anxiety. Because I could show people.


One of the things that we used to associate pulp culture with is someone who was smoking, they were dark and broody and all that. But there's a reason for that. It’s because we were.


We smoked because we wanted someone to see how much we were hurting because we were hurting ourselves. We knew it wasn't good for us. And afterwards, it became the long-term addiction where it was just something that we did because it was there. But I truly believe at first it is that you want someone to acknowledge that there's something wrong.


And all someone is seeing another teenager smoking. Like I was never that person, but I don't think I had the kind of empathy that I do now that I've realized that this is like a torch asking for help. And I hate that my hand automatically goes to pretending I'm having a cigarette when I'm talking about this.


So that's what it was with the writing too. I thought because I was newly a writer, I had to perform more than I had to actually write something well. And I know now, again with age and wisdom, that's not the case.


But it also brought me back to something else I saw someone had posted. They said, "You have to change your whole life around in order to be able to quit smoking." And because I was so drawn to writing, I had to be authentic.


So, I had to show people. Because I don't know if you remember the late 1900s, early 2000s, where it was very prominent that if you were creating art, it had to be depressing in some way or it wasn't real art. You had to show pain in some way.


So this cigarette was like proving that my art was valid because, “Look, I'm smoking so I must be depressed.” So I must be valid in this space.


So one of my biggest influences is Kurt Vonnegut. I love his books. But every time he wrote a book where he inserted himself or it was an essay, he was always smoking Pall Malls.


So when they started selling Pall Malls in Canada, like I'm going to do this. I'm going to channel this energy that he had because man lived into his 80s. So they can't be that strong.
Oh my god, I saw the afterlife for 5 seconds. And you know what? Bring a jacket because it was cold. That's all I remember. It was two puffs and I’m like, I don't care how much these were. I could never do this to myself.”


So I just went back to smoking my normal cigarettes. But I felt like I wasn't strong enough because I couldn't inhale a ridiculous toxic cancer stick that one of my idols inhaled. I felt that I had lost some kind of credibility. Isn't that so silly when you say it out loud?


So with the writing, because that was my thing was I would sit, especially in coffee shops, when you could smoke in them. I'd be sitting there and writing and smoking the whole time. And someone had posted something that you had to change your entire life to be able to quit smoking. And I actually do truly believe that.


And I was very scared to lose the thing that I loved. Because I associated it so much with smoking. More than the morning coffee. More than after the meal. It was, “I'm frustrated. I'm going to go write it down and have a smoke with it.” And that was one thing that I had to create my own space and figure out, “What did I want?”


I knew that I wanted to keep writing in my life because it was so important to me. And the aforementioned stubbornness kept me a little bit propped up. But it became a daily reminder. I'm not ashamed to say at one point it was an hourly reminder that, “If you want to write, you can't smoke. If you want to write, you can't smoke. You can't have both. And which one do you want?”


And I didn't want the cigarette. In a way I needed the cigarette. But I didn't want it. I wanted to write. So there's a lot of self- talk involved in it. Did you find that when you quit?


Jessi:

Definitely. Definitely. I had go-tos and I had to change the whole way that I was talking to myself. That was really the root of what was going on for me.


Emily:

I know. I think a lot of people try to avoid it because in some ways it sounds cheesy and it’s like, “Oh, I don't want to do that.” Like you see that on these weird shows where you see the person go to a holistic healer and they say do your affirmations. And they make fun of it on TV, but it really does help talking yourself through it.


You're your own best friend in a lot of ways. And I think because we smoked, we did maybe, and I'm projecting a little bit, but maybe we did hate ourselves a little bit. And it's hard to make that switch to starting to have a little bit of care for ourselves.


And if you can't do it out of care, find another emotion. Like I said, I started out doing it out of fear. Is that the healthiest? No. But at least it was a place to start. And I'm just remembering how much it sucked right now. It sucked so bad.


Jessi:

Yeah.


Emily:

So speaking of writing, another thing that I did as I was thinking more of this is, I used to be one of those people who I never said, "I'll quit when I want to." I said, "I'm never going to quit. I'm going to die smoking." And I'm just going to leave it at that because I had no sense of self-preservation.


And I did smoke when I was pregnant. And I did put my child through that. Now, my first book was a memoir of postpartum depression. And one of the things I put in there was, "Don't judge me for smoking." And I actually put it in there quite a few times. It was a self-defense mechanism that I was trying to make it so that it wasn't that big of a deal.


I just released a second edition of the book and I cut out a few of those because I felt icky about it. And I think maybe that's the start of me starting to feel differently about it. It wasn't that I was afraid that I was going to be an enabler, but I don't want to take away support from a mother who truly believes that she can't quit smoking while she's pregnant.


Because if you're having a bad pregnancy sometimes, literally, I've seen some people have one puff and then they're good for the whole day. I don't want to be the person to take it away from them. But I also don't want the person to be validating it either. So, that's why I took a few of those pages out of the book.



Jessi at midroll:

Before we get back to the rest of the story, I want to speak to the pregnant moms listening. If you are navigating the stress of pregnancy while trying to stay smoke-free, please know you don’t have to do it alone.


I created The Heart Within Sponsorship as a completely free, safe space for you to find emotional resources and community support. You can join us today by visiting honoryourheart.net.


Now, let's get back to today's show.



Emily:

I even went so far when I was in university, I was taking a speech class and I did a pro-smoking speech where I was trying to extol the virtues of smoking and why everyone should do it. And they have actually proved that nicotine is good for your memory. Well, let's harness that in a different way, I shouldn't have been telling people to inhale something that is not oxygen.


But one thing that I had said in that speech and I still truly believe is I wish your government, my government, any government would do this. Let's say the year 2020 just to make my math easier is the year. We say anyone born after 2020 is never allowed to smoke for the rest of time. Everyone before that they still have to breach the age of maturity before it will legally sell them cigarettes. But let them I don't want to say die out but die out. Let them quit on their own terms or…


But at one point, cigarettes as we know them will be eliminated. And all those industries that rely on jobs through the tobacco industry will replace themselves more slowly and easily than if we cut everything off all at once which I know they are trying to do in Canada.


They said, I think, by 2030 they wanted to be smokefree Canada. We're not doing too badly. It's down to 26% of people in Canada smoke, which is the lowest it's been. Like I was the generation where we had cigarette machines.My dad would give me a $2 bill and say, "Go get me a pack of smokes."


So, I think this is a great idea. But introducing something like that too soon will cause more problems because it is such a massive addiction. I did not realize what I was getting myself into.


Not that I think anyone does when they start smoking. You know it's addictive, but you don't know it's that addictive. You don't know that years later you're still going to want one for a random reason. You're not going to know why that feeling comes over you. You're not going to know why it's so hard to quit in the first place.


And like I said before, we stop calling it quitter’s flu and start calling it withdrawals. I am one of those people who believe if we change certain words, you change the perception around that topic.


Jessi:

Yeah, we call it withdrawals over here. But I have experienced the flu as well. So, I guess we kind of use both.


But I'm wondering more about when you have those cravings still. Like you said, you're maybe not certain of what causes them or where they come from. Is there any kind of pattern that you've noticed in your emotional state? What causes that?


Like obviously when you see the person passing out free ones, maybe part of you that's like, "Oh, free thing that I used to love.” Like of course. What other circumstances do you have those cravings pop up and how often does that happen?


Emily:

Well, now at almost the six year mark, I would say once every couple of months, maybe something will happen. The emotional state has to be super stressed. And it did evolve from there.


So, it did start out where if there was any little stressor. It's like, “This payment didn't go through on time.” Or, “This show got cancelled.” Like literally the smallest and stupidest things would be like, “I need a cigarette right now.”


But now it has to be significant. We got in a car accident in the beginning of December and that's the last time I've wanted a cigarette. I was sitting in the car and we're waiting for the tow truck. I thought, “I would have smoked five or six of them by now waiting for that tow truck.” So yes, definitely the stress and needing that kind of coping mechanism.


My coping mechanism now is talking. I can't be embarrassed to talk about it and I know a lot of people are because I was. I was so embarrassed to say how bad these cravings were.


Because well, one, especially for a non-smoker, they don't usually believe you that it's that bad because they've never had an addiction. Someone who's had an addiction usually gets it at least a little bit.


Jessi:

Yeah. So, you just kind of talk it through?


Emily:

Yes. My son's going to be 15 here soon, and I'll even talk it through with him. Because I told him from the get-go that, “Smoking was bad.” And he never questioned me. He saw how hard it was for me and his dad to quit. And seeing us. He'd be in the warm house and seeing us outside freezing.


Oh my god. When winter comes, do I just look outside and am like, "Oh, I'm so glad I don't do that anymore."


Jessi:

And then I'm wondering, do you talk yourself down a little bit? Is there a part of you that knows that even if you had the smoke that you'd still be stressed or it wouldn't take the stress away as much as you've wired yourself to think that?


Emily:

The self-talk comes back to telling myself, “You didn't work this hard for nothing.” As opposed to being rational about it. I'm a little more tough love with myself but not as angry and mean about it as I used to be with the self-talk.


So yeah I'll just be like, “You didn't come this far for nothing so you're not going to have a smoke. And then I'll say back to myself, “Yeah I know but it's like…” “You're not going to have a smoke” And then it's like, “Say something to Frank, my husband” It's like, “Okay we'll finally say it out loud.”


So, I do find that I do need that other person there a lot of the time and like having that moral support from someone. And I can understand how that can make someone feel uncomfortable, too. Because we all want to believe we can do it on our own and we can stand on our own two feet. But we're here for each other.


You wouldn't want your friend to go without your help. Why would you go without your friend's help? And even if it's an online friend who you've never met in person, that could be even a greater friend than you could ever meet in person. If you need someone, reach out. I know it's easier said than done, but I'm still going to tell you to do it. Please reach out.


Jessi:

Well, I think that's beautifully said. And to reach out for love and connection rather than just hurting yourself, coping, being that overwhelmed, stress state. So, I think that's a real difference.


What other benefits have you noticed since quitting then? So, it seems like it's improved your relationship with more honesty. What else has come from that?


Emily:

Food tastes better. People had always said, “It numbs your taste buds.” And well, when you're smoking, you don't know. Oh wow, food tastes so much better.


I don't smell. Oh my god. So, my husband's family still smokes and when he comes out, he has to stay outside for a few minutes before he can come in the car. I once said to my mom, "Did I really smell like that?" And when she says, "Yes, you did." I'm so embarrassed.


Because it is such a brutally disgusting smell. It really is. Especially if there's more than one smoker in the household. And I know for some people these might be little inconsequential things, but those add up.


So I did damage my lungs when I had pneumonia, but I still have more endurance than I did before it. So that's already got to tell you something. And I'm not worried every time I have a weird pain thinking that it might be something worse than what it really is. As you become an older smoker, you do start to think that.


And as soon as I said that out loud, I just became super grateful for a second. And oh god, I hate being that mushy. What have you done to me? You're the new Oprah. [laughter]


Jessi:

[laughter] No, I want to get mushier. So, I want to speak on that resilience. Like when you're sitting there and you're having a craving and you talk to yourself and you say, "No, you've come too far to go back now." Do you see yourself differently now that you've gotten through the other side of quitting?


Emily:

Maybe I am a little stronger. Yeah. I don't want to be the person who pats herself on the back. But I also don't want to ignore the accomplishment either because it was work. And I would do it all over again though and that's how I know it was worth doing again.


So cheesy. The reason these things are cheesy and said often is because they're truths. And I will stick by them. And so, yes.


It's not like I feel like I could go out and do anything in the world now. But I know that I did something difficult and worthwhile with my life, even if it was something done because I started doing something that was a poor choice.


I made a poor choice and I later had to show myself that I had learned and developed. And I became a stronger person that I didn't have to be a slave to that poor choice that I made, we're not going to say how many years ago.


Jessi:

Yeah. And it's a way to get out of regret, too. Because when I got to the other side and had quit, I was feeling sorry for myself. I'm like, “Why did it take so long? This is so great. I wasted all these years that I could have felt this great.”


But then it helps me to understand that there's no way I could have gotten to where I am if I hadn't done what I'd done. So, I actually can be kind of grateful that I had that struggle because I like where I am and I like who I am. So that's the way for me to come to terms with it.


Because it can be hard when you're like, “I shouldn't have done that. Why did I do that?” But it makes sense. You can look back and see how it all affected you to get to this spot where you're at.


Emily:

Right. And again, people who don't smoke, I feel, maybe underplay how bad that addiction is. You have the physical effects. You have the mental effects. And you have a sincere regret because of how catastrophic it is to your health.


And I didn't even quit after this. So after my hysterectomy, I wasn't able to breathe very well. When they woke me up, they had to put the oxygen on me. And I said, "What happened?" And she's like, "That's what you get for smoking." And walked away.


And that lack of empathy didn't make me want to quit smoking. It made me want to just accept where I was. It's like, "Okay, well, this is what I deserve." There is a severe lack of compassion for so many people with so many different kinds of addictions.


I don't think people should be saying this addiction is worse than this addiction. I think that if someone tells you they have an addiction, your default should be compassion and empathy right away. And I'm making you people say that and do that and this is your lesson for the day. Tough love.


Jessi:

Love that one. So, you've had so much throughout your story, but someone that's in it. They want to quit. Maybe they've had some hardships like you where it's like, "Hey, this is an opportunity to quit.” And they haven't taken it. And they're just wondering, “Am I ever going to be able to do this?" What words of advice would you have for them?


Emily:

You think you can't do it, but you can. When you do it, you'll still think you can't do it. And then you'll continue to do it. And then almost 6 years later, you're still going to think, "I might still slip up." And then you're going to go seven years. And then you're going to go eight.


That little doubt is not going to go away. You're just going to have to prove it wrong.


Jessi:

Yeah, I like that. That's wise and real.


So, how can listeners get in touch with you and do you want to talk more about your work with writing?


Emily:

Thank you. The easiest way to do it is on Facebook, Emily Andrews, author. I write from, I want to say a feminist perspective, but it's more. In my first book that I wrote, as I said, was a memoir of postpartum depression. And my whole goal was I wanted people to not feel alone.


And that's why I felt this podcast was a perfect fit. Because that is my soul desire is that everyone in this world can find out that they're not alone. Whether it's with depression, anxiety, postpartum depression, cigarettes, you are not alone. There is someone out there who can relate to you and who wants to be there with you.


My second book was a book of short stories and I wrote them from a teenager's perspective. Because it goes back to something else I was saying earlier is that I think teenagers aren't given a lot of credit for the emotions that they feel. They have the same emotions as us.


Just because they're younger doesn't mean they can suppress it or it's not there. It's there. They're just trying to find ways to cope with it. And if someone isn't there to guide them, they're going to find an unhealthy way to cope with it. Whether that's smoking, drinking, drugs. So try to just sit there and listen.


If you have a teenager in your life, if you don't know what to say to them, you don't have to say anything. You can just sit there and listen to what they have to say. And I think that goes for anyone who maybe you're not sure how to help them.


Listening is always better than not doing anything at all. Listening is very powerful and doesn't require you to actually do anything after you've done listening. I got to always put that in there. So, yes, but thank you for letting me talk about that.


And I'm sorry I'm going to gush for a moment. I just want to thank you for letting me come here because I think you're building a great community. And I just want to see it thrive.


Jessi:

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing vulnerably. For walking us through some of the trials you've gone through. I'm just really impressed and amazed at how resilient and strong you really are and all the lessons you've learned and shared with us today are much appreciated.


Emily:

Thank you. Not a problem. I hope you have a great day. Thank you.


Jessi:

Thank you. Take care, everyone.



End of Interview

Before we go, if you are a pregnant mom who is currently struggling with smoking I want you to know about a completely free, supportive resource I created just for you: The Heart Within Sponsorship.


This community is a safe space to navigate the stress of pregnancy while maintaining a smoke-free journey. It offers emotional resources and connects you with other moms who understand what you're going through. You don't have to do this alone. Find out more and join this free community today at www.honoryourheart.net.


I'll see you in the next episode.
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