Hi, welcome to the You Can Quit Smoking podcast, where we go over stories of success with overcoming smoking addiction. Many people have moved through this radical transformation and use smoking as an opportunity for inner growth, with deeper self-awareness and a greater capacity for compassion. So many have done it and you can quit smoking, too. I'm your host, Jessi Hartnett, founder of Honor Your Heart.

Jessi:

Hey everyone, welcome back. I'm here with Michelle. Michelle, can you introduce yourself?


Michelle:

Absolutely. So, I'm Michelle Kudson. I live in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m originally from Los Angeles, California. And I'm super excited to be here.


Jessi:

Well, thanks so much for coming. I'm really excited to hear your story about quitting smoking. I've seen a little bit of your videos and want to learn more. So, what's your story with smoking?


Michelle:

Where do you even start? I feel like we have similar stories in how young we both started smoking. As I said, I am from Los Angeles. You're very quick to grow up in LA I feel like.


I went to a private school in North Hollywood. A lot of celebrity kids and older siblings and parties and this and that. And all the schools kind of mingling and whatnot. And there was just exposure to a lot of things a heck of a lot earlier than other cities, I guess.


So, starting at the beginning, I was pretty straight edge through middle school. People started smoking weed and dabbling a little bit here and there in middle school. But I was not really interested in any of that. And then in ninth grade, I had one beer at one party and that was it. I wasn't really a big drinker or any of that.


And my parents know this story, so it will not enthuse them, but it certainly won't surprise them. The summer of my ninth grade school year, my older sister gave me my first cigarette. I was with her and one of her friends and I was going to boarding school in the fall for 10th grade. And I ended up just trying it for the first time.


It wasn't like a kind of one hit wonder where I immediately wanted to smoke forever and every day like some people feel that can be the case with smoking or with drinking. I obviously coughed so much and struggled and it was a menthol and all of the things. I'd never really smoked weed before, so just smoke inhalation in general was super different and uncomfortable.


That fall, as I said, I was going to boarding school. And when I got to boarding school, one of my first close friends there, smoked a little bit, dabbled, per se. And one of his friends was a kid that was a day student. And at boarding school, it's very hard to smuggle in all the paraphernalia. So if you meet a kid that comes in to school every day and has a car and all that kind of stuff.


So with the three of us, he was kind of like, "Oh, you want to go smoke cigarettes?" And I thought, "Oh, I I've done that. I can pretend like I know how to do this and whatnot." And from then on out, I was fully smoking in 10th grade, which is just so crazy to me. And was buying cartons of cigarettes. I wasn't even 16, I don't think.


And the voyage of going to smoke at boarding school where you're not driving somewhere after school or going to some friend's house whose parents aren't home. We had to hike into the woods and get away from teachers, hide from campus security. And it kind of felt like an undercover mission every time we wanted to go smoke in the woods.


And it was a cool kids club where the people that did smoke would always sneak out together and you'd basically go hiking in the woods, adrenaline pumping. We were doing it in the snow in the winter, always scared you're going to get caught.. And it was just what I feel like a lot of my social network was built upon, honestly. That was very much boarding school.


I ended up coming back to California to finish out high school and very much smoked after school with friends. Kids were starting to smoke weed. Kids were smoking cigarettes, doing even crazier things, just the LA of it all. And I continued smoking.


When it comes to college, I definitely have some funny stories there. I was very much smoking through college. I went to Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas.


I wanted to join a sorority. I was almost black balled from the Greek life there for smoking cigarettes. It was very apropos to be smoking as a headed to Greek life freshman female. But there were a few out there. So, at a frat party or whatnot, you'd be hiding in the corner and then see another girl kind of hiding in the corner.


So again, meeting people in the capacity of smoking and also maybe kind of trying to hide it at the same time. Which is like such the funny thing about smoking that I think people love and relate to and are shameful of.


It also kind of keeps you in the trap of like, “What happens next when I walk away from this vehicle of stepping outside the bar with friends? And taking a moment outside of a loud party? Or exiting a concert where it's so loud and I need a little bit of fresh air?” Which I guess is kind of a pun because you're going outside for it and then smoking.


Jessi:

Totally.



Michelle:

But you know what I mean? It's really hard to imagine losing that.


So, the first time I tried to quit…I have so many smoking then not smoking, smoking, then not smoking ups and downs. But the first time I really quit, I got into a relationship. And it was one of those things like I feel like is true with a lot of addictions.


And I'm a big believer in some of Allen Carr's philosophies. I'm sure people have talked about how to quit smoking with Allen Carr which did not work for me which we'll get to. But I think his explanation of the slippery slope of addiction as like a pitcher plant is something that I very much relate to. I was sliding down this pitcher plant of addiction when it came to smoking where my partner was not.


He was kind of a social smoker, a drunk smoker. He'd pop out at the bar or at parties or some kind of social scene with me and smoke a cigarette or two. As our relationship continued, he would come out and leave the party with me but not smoke. I continued smoking. I wanted to stay in that lane of having a partner that did it with me and taking those moments outside and all of the things we talked about. And he was no longer interested in that.


He was like, "Look, I'm kind of done smoking here. And not only am I personally done smoking, I'm also done going outside and smelling of cigarettes. And watching you do this thing that I don't think you should be doing and think is really bad for you." Which luckily led me to quit.


And it was fairly easy the first time around. I feel like I just made the decision to quit and that was that. Not even with willpower. Like it honestly just felt like I turned a light switch on and off, which is so crazy to think about now that my story obviously continues. And the latest go around quitting was not that easy and did not work with willpower. But I was very lucky in that first attempt.


After that, I never really thought too much about smoking. It felt like something I did as a young kid. It felt like a closed chapter. It was probably almost two years until I started smoking again.


I was very lonely. I actually befriended one of my neighbors and it was during COVID and the pandemic. I definitely started drinking more. And I guess for the audience, I'm also newly sober. So, there's a lot of like in tandem addictions there that play into this.


I was in Los Angeles. Everyone's lockdown stories are different and depending where you live, they're more stringent, more severe, or more open. Los Angeles was obviously one of those places that was extremely locked down.


So I at the time and still am a real estate agent. For a minute there, we were not considered essential. We were not allowed to work for six or eight weeks. Then we became essential. But I'd go days without seeing people. And I befriended one of my neighbors. And unfortunately, this neighbor smokes cigarettes.


And we all know how that goes. And it's like, “Oh, I'll just have one after a few glasses of wine.” And, “Oh God, I miss this so much.” Again, this is like this social lubricant. And it's this naughty thing.


That's also something in my current iteration of quitting that I've had to learn. I take great pleasure in things that are awful for me. And I don't take the same amount of pleasure in things that are the best thing for me and should feel really good. Like I should want to do yoga or meditate or take a bath. Instead I'm like, “Let's go get hammered and let's rip a bunch of cigarettes.” You know?


Jessi:

Yeah.


Michelle:

In a really dark place, I definitely was like, "Oh my gosh, this like naughty thing that I shouldn't be doing, that isn't good for me. But it feels so good in the moment when I'm so disconnected from the world, unhappy, unstimulated, unsocialized, all of these things." And so kind of quickly fell down that pitcher plant right back into full-blown smoking again.


Since then, I feel like having quit the first time so easily I had gotten my head around, “Okay, we're not 15 anymore. We're not 21 anymore. We're not even 25 anymore. This isn't cute anymore. It's not this rebellious teenage thing. We're now smoking a cigarette on our lunch break at our corporate job, driving around with the windows down, spraying perfume, chewing gum, changing our jacket, putting our hair up, putting our hair down. This is not really on brand for us anymore.”


And that's something that one of my best friends has said to me time and time again. Every time I've struggled with quitting, she's like, "This is just not your brand.” All she's trying to say is, “You should think more highly of yourself. You should treat yourself better. You deserve better than this. You are above this. And smoking is not an act of self-love in any way, shape, or form. It is entirely an act of rebellion and an act, at least in my case, of self-loathing.


After quitting the first time, I didn't get the same pleasure perhaps because I'd made that journey around the sun of like, “Okay, this is really terrible for me. I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm still doing it because it's so addicting.” It is quite literally in my own backyard with having people in my social circle doing it.


I would kind of dabble in quitting and I remember it was like every other couple weeks. It felt like something like I got really serious before my 29th birthday. My birthday is in August. That didn't happen. Then I was like, "Okay, New Year's in December." That didn't happen.


Then it was when I turned 30. If I smoked past my 30th birthday, I really felt like I was going to smoke forever. And so I was so serious about it. I told absolutely everyone about it. And that still didn't happen. And at the time it was very much willpower, I would say, through all of these attempts.


2024 comes around. Again, my birthday is in August. I'm now turning 31. That was even scarier. I was like, "Okay, I'm fully continuing to smoke, climbing into my 30s now." And I've told so many people. I also have a really big community between family and friends and online Tik Tok, Instagram. How I show up is always very honest and genuine.


So, it was like starting to be a repeating story, Groundhog's day of saying, "I'm going to quit. I'm on day one. I'm on day two." And then it was like, "Oops, I smoked again." Like, it was always an excuse. It was always something. It was, “I can't deal with this work thing.” Or, “I'm really stressed out about the state of the world.” Or, “It's election day.” Whatever, you find an excuse.


And so turning 31, I dug my feet in. The same thing happened. I was smoking 3 weeks later. Throughout all of these attempts I was trying pretty much everything, Allen Carr's Easy Way to Quit Smoking. I had listened to the audio book. It never really stuck for me.


I think I started also in the tandems of addiction, I was also reading his Easy Way to Moderate Drinking, which I'll save you time. The punchline of that book is there's no easy way to moderate your drinking and the only answer is to quit drinking.


So, I also wasn't ready to hear that when I read that book. But in tandem listening to the quitting smoking, it didn't really land for me. Listening to the moderating drinking, I was not enthused to hear that punchline at the end of it. I was also not ready to quit drinking either.


I never got into vape. Thank God. I dated a guy in early 2024, amidst dabbling and quitting and then getting back into smoking again. And he vaped. I remember we hit the vape. I did a few times that night. Then woke up the next morning and we were vaping in his car on the way to breakfast.


And I was like, “If I continue this, meaning I can do this in the car. I can do this in my home. I can do this lying in bed. I can do this in my clothes for work. I can do this anytime, anywhere, and not reek of actual cigarette smoke, I will never quit. If there is not the social negative connotation and accountability of reeking like cigarette smoke, I will literally never ever stop vaping for the rest of my life. So I can't go there.” Luckily I had that warning sign the one day I did it and knew it would be game over.


And then in talking about what's finally stuck for me. So I had voiced to friends and family how unhappy I was still smoking. Feeling like a failure. Feeling like I've been overly ambitious and honest with my community. Feeling shame that I haven't been able to do it but knowing that I really wanted to.


The shame of knowing that and still walking outside at 7:30 in the morning to rip a cigarette. That that was still happening was so crazy. I would be sitting there holding a cigarette thinking about how disgusting my hand was going to feel or smell. My lungs were hurting.


Where I was living at the time, I used to walk my dog down to the mailbox and it was on this really big steep hill. And that's what I started doing when I first moved there as my exercise. And I was at the point now where I couldn't do that anymore because my lungs hurt so bad on a six minute walk up the hill to get back from the mailbox. Not even a hike at this point.


I'm 30 turning 31 years old. I played sports my whole life, work out, all the things. And I was like, “Not only can I not do this, this is physically starting to hurt me: lung/chest pain.” At this point, the cough, I had it.



Also in posting a lot of videos online, people were saying to me like, "You don't sound like yourself. Like, we can tell you're smoking so much based on the tone of your voice and how deep it is."


Jessi at midroll:

I hope today's guest is giving you a new perspective on what is possible. If you want to make sure you never miss a story like this one, take a quick second right now to hit the follow or subscribe button on your app. Not only does it ensure you get a fresh dose of inspiration every week, but it also helps the 'podcast robots' realize this show is worth putting in front of new people who might be struggling. It only takes a second to tap that button, and it helps us keep this community growing. Let's head back to the episode.


Michelle:

And I was getting kind of ramped up again to quit. And unfortunately, my heart goes out to anyone trying to quit that is in and around or dating anyone in like the service industry. Because I know it's so pervasive, smoking.


And I was dating someone that was adjacent to that. And while he didn't smoke, he was around it so much that he was indifferent to it. And that's almost as bad when you're trying to quit smoking. You want someone in your corner. At least for me.


Maybe it can be less motivating or too much pressure for some people to have a partner that really wants them to quit. But for me, having someone that was not really taking a stance on me quitting just let me like run with it. Like it was a non-issue. It wasn't looked at as like this taboo thing or this negative thing or even this thing he didn't like so much.


And of course, you shouldn't base your life decisions, especially if they're as unhealthy and terrible for you as smoking. But all to say, it probably would have been more beneficial if he hated it. And so, I kind of ran with it.


And part of me was thinking, “Maybe we're back on this track of smoking again for the rest of our lives. And maybe it doesn't matter if we do. Maybe we're just kind of meant to do this and this is the cross we bear. And if I'm smoking a lot and drinking a lot and I'm not killing anybody, maybe this is just what I'm going to do. And maybe it's okay.”


And you kind of talk yourself into something when genuinely once you're outside of the brain fog of it has zero benefits to you. Genuinely. And like I mean that so seriously to anyone who's struggling to quit. Once you get past that hump and you can think logically, there's genuinely zero benefit to it.


And my best friend, I love her so much. She would back this one hundred percent. Like, if she listens to this, she's going to be like, "Yeah, I did tell you this." She's the one that was like, "This is not on brand for you. You're above this. You're better than this. You deserve better than this." All the things. So, I'm dreading leaning on her for support and then having to tell her I'm smoking again.


We go through my 31st birthday now and then again on replay like Groundhog's Day. I'm like, “I have to quit before New Year's again.” And it's the same old story. I'm probably boring people even listening to this, but I think quite a few people relate to the rinse and repeat of it.


And I decided again, “I'm going to fully quit on the first and da da da.” And I was with my parents. We were in the desert outside of Los Angeles after Christmas and it was the 28th. And in my head I'm literally thinking, "Okay, great. I have three, four more days to smoke. I'm going to crush all these cigarettes today and tomorrow and the next day and New Year's Eve and yada yada yada."


And what I had never done, nicotine assisted quitting, if you will. I don't know what you call that, but patches, gum, mints. That's the only thing I'd never tried. I've tried the books, some hypnotherapy type stuff, the air straws that you puff and kind of feels like a vape, but I wasn't a vapor, so that didn't really work. Some of those air puffy things that you put essential oils in, because I was a menthol smoker.


It was December 2024, and for whatever reason, since I'm a menthol smoker, I was running out of my menthol cigarettes. And for anyone in California, they know you can no longer buy menthol cigarettes in California. And so when I'd fly back from Nashville, where I live now, I'd like to buy an extra pack of cigarettes to have while in California that are menthol and strong and all the things.


Something like a revelation appeared. I was like, “Why are we waiting any more days for this? We're running out of menthol cigarettes. I'm going to go outside.” I was with my parents. My parents hate smoking. definitely don't encourage it and whatnot, but I'm a grown adult. I'm 31 at this point. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.


And I tell my mom, I'm like, “I'm going outside. I have one cigarette left and then I'm freaking quitting and I'm going to be done.” And I do that. I smoke the last cigarette, throw the pack away. And I'm like, “Let's do something different.” I was like, “Let's go to Target right now and buy all the days of the patches. Let's freaking do it.”


And we go. It's like $100. It's not cheap. I buy all these patches. I put it on. It felt like my skin was searing at the time because it's like so warm and I'd never had that sensation on me. And I ended up quitting for like two months.


I think when you buy the patches for whatever level I was smoking at. I think it was 12 weeks. And like any freaking person trying to quit, I will warn you against this. Eight weeks in I was like, “I totally quit. Like this is good to go. Off I go.”


And then funny enough, I guess kind of my kryptonite, even though I decided not to partake, I was out like 2 or 3 months later and someone had a vape. I vaped and the next morning I bought cigarettes again and off we go.


That did give me the confidence though that if I do have nicotine somewhat still in the system, whether it's patches or gum or mint, maybe this could really work for me. I'd start smoking again for a couple months, then quit, then start smoking for a couple months, then quit.


And then it would have been four months ago now. I finally did the full whatever it was, 12 or16 weeks of patches. I spent all that money again, bought the gums, bought the mints, everything. And just said, "I'm going to do this process from start to finish and see if it works and just keep wearing the patches no matter what. And use the gum whenever I want to smoke a cigarette and trust the process." And it has worked at this point.


And I'm kind of at the point now even talking about smoking for an hour, you kind of think, “Damn, I really miss that. Like that sounds great.” And that's me just being open and honest. And I have to kind of name it so that I don't make it a reality.


But my biggest takeaway, which I've already said: there is nothing good, beneficial, or healthy about smoking. And everything about it is to me now gross, unhealthy, unproductive, unpleasant for everyone around you that doesn't smoke. It is terrible for you.


I feel like the rebound of your lung function, the immediate disappearance of chest pain, being able to walk longer distances up those hills that I'm talking about, that came back so quickly. It was almost inconceivable to have not realized how linked those two things are and want to go back to it.


I don't mean to sound negative or that I'm looking down on people that are still smoking because obviously that was me for half my life. But what helps me get over that hill of quitting and stay there, is I have to look back at me smoking and look at it so negatively. I have to just be like, “That is so gross. That is so not me. I do not want to go back to that.” And just keep that really negative self-talk about what I was doing back then in my head fresh so I never even consider it again.


Jessi:

Do you do the flip side? Do you celebrate yourself and praise yourself and how's your confidence? Because you talked about feeling that shame of living out of alignment. Do you feel better about yourself now and want to hold tight to that?


Michelle:

Yeah, one hundred percent. Similarly, like you were telling me a little bit more about your personal life, I'm in a relationship now. And this is a funny story.


We had only been dating for a couple weeks. At the time, I was still wearing patches when I got really serious because I’d been doing it a few months now at this point. I was still wearing patches on this last big attempt to quit, which finally worked. And we were sitting hanging out and we were just shooting it back and forth and asking each other funny questions and whatnot. I don't know if I asked him or he asked me, but we were like, "Oh, do you have tattoos?" It's something we hadn't talked about. And he said, "No." And he was his personal preference. He was like, "No, not not really for me. Not super into them. Do you have tattoos?" And I was like, "No, I don't have tattoos."


Then I was like, "Do you like smoke? Do you smoke weed? Whatever?” And he was like, "Oh, no. I hate smoking. Smoke is disgusting to me." And I'm sitting there having quit smoking, which I had been doing for 15 years, wearing a nicotine patch on my back at this moment. And I really like the kid.


And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this could be bad. If I start smoking again, this could be really bad.” And I kind of laugh and I grab his hand and I… this sounds terrible, but you'll see. I shove it down my shirt, the back of my shirt. And he's like, "What are you doing?" And I'm like, "Do you feel that?" And he's like, "What is that?" And I go, "That's a nicotine patch. I've been smoking for 15 years and I only quit 8 weeks ago and I am still on this whole agenda. I cannot believe that's how you feel about smoking." And it was really surprising.


And I said, “Would we be dating if I started smoking again?” And he said, "No, absolutely not. It's a line for me. I find it gross. I don't want to kiss someone and make out with someone that smells like cigarettes. I don't want it in my home. I don't want it around. And that's a personal opinion.”


And so, it was like a very revelatory moment where I thought, “Gosh, we wouldn't be here if I was smoking.” And having that as the equal and opposite to the situation I was in not long before that relationship wise has been super helpful.


In tandem, as I mentioned, I'm recently sober. And since quitting smoking, now 5 months ago, the alcohol quickly fell like smoking did. Because like we talked about being prone to doing the things when you feel terrible that are terrible for you. Smoking and drinking are both in that bucket. They still feel really good to me.


And when I have a really bad night, I think, “Damn, I'd like to just make this worse.” Like there is something in that self-talk that's like, “Well if this is going to go to hell.let's light this popsicle stand on fire. Let's go. Let's pour the gas on. Not let's not strike the match but get a freaking flamethrower and just turn it up.” That's really how my mind talks.


I would say I'm still working to reconfigure the self-talk but doing things that are good for you. Doing things you set your mind to like quitting smoking, like stop stopping drinking, as opposed to consistently letting yourself down is so monumental. And is probably the easiest thing you can do when it comes to increasing your own self-worth.


If you say, "I'm not going to smoke today." And you don't smoke today, you're doing what you set your mind out to do. And you're growing your own self-worth by being honest to your goals that you set for yourself. I mean, if you consistently let yourself down, how are you not going to let other people down?


And at the end of the day, it doesn't feel good. Like, drinking a bottle of wine and smoking ten cigarettes on the front porch was so fun in the moment. And you're smoking ten cigarettes because one's never enough. But the next morning is certainly one of the lowest lows.


And so slowly stacking and banking the promises I make to myself day in and day out, I feel like that self-worth and honestly my self-trust grows. If you can't trust yourself in what you say you're going to do, what you know is good for you, how are you going to expect other people to do it? So that's definitely been like a big part of my journey.


Jessi:

Yeah. And trusting yourself to meet your needs in a different way. So, I know you said, “there's no benefits to smoking.” And I can kind of agree with that in some way, but I also see smoking is a way to meet our needs. It's not necessarily an effective way and it's not the only way.


So, you kind of spoke on like this naughty side of you, this rebelling side of you. Have you found other ways to meet that need? Or maybe some of the other needs you have like the social connection? Like you said, surrounding yourself with people that don't smoke don't like it, that can be helpful. But I'm just wondering if you're able to meet those needs that you were turning to smoking for in other ways.


Michelle:

Sure. I'll say I have not found a perfect replacement for that, if you will. I mean, definitely being freer with food choices and sugar I feel like is such a huge thing. Especially if you're new on the scene of sobriety. That's been something.


But I would say, especially in therapy, the bigger thing I'm trying to rewire is the feeling that I need to meet those needs that you're talking about with things that are actually really bad for me. That's what I'm really trying to do is instead of finding something that feels naughty and feels like putting your foot down on the gas and accelerating self-destruction.


Why do we seek that? Why do we seek things that are going to make us feel really bad in the moment to feel good just in the moment? Because we know that doesn't last. I'm trying to really work in therapy to rewire.


If I'm stressed out, why don't we kind of put our foot on the gas of things that are going to restore us and are going to leave us feeling better in the morning? Like all those things that I still roll my eyes at and we all know we should be doing: going to sleep earlier, working out, meditating, journaling, all of those things.


I will say in meeting the need or perhaps want of being somewhat self-indulgent, I do really try to lean into the fufu of self-care. Whether it be massages or really nice candles, all those kinds of things.


So, since I've been over the hump of quitting smoking and then very much so since ripping alcohol out of that too, monthly massages are one of my go-tos. I have a subscription for a place here in Nashville and you just get a massage every month. You can book it any time of day, any day of the month. And it's something that I can look forward to.


Gosh, you caught me with that one because I do feel like sometimes you're sitting there at 7:00 at night. And having a glass of wine and being cheeky and naughty in that way is no longer an option or having a cigarette. I don't smoke weed. But I don't have a..to think of it as like a light switch.


Like whether it was smoking or drinking, especially over the last year when I was living out in the middle of nowhere on 20 acres. I had no neighbors. I could smoke cigarettes from sun up to sun down. And I would some days. I would drink a bottle of wine and smoke nearly a pack of cigarettes just turn my brain off.


And I have to do that now in healthier ways. And that might be giving myself permission to shut my laptop and stop working.


Jessi:

Yeah.


Michelle:

So yeah, I definitely could use work on that.


Jessi:

No, I think that's brilliant how we turn that reflex for self-destruction into a reflex for self-care. And it takes practice. It takes patience. You're right.


Maybe it doesn't feel as instantly good like that relief, that fix that we're so used to. But long term li feeling well is the benefit.


Michelle:

One hundred percent. And for a little bit of levity, there's vain benefits here. There's physical benefits here. The way I feel like my skin bounced back, like we already talked about, just not coughing every time you deeply inhale is life-changing.


You forget how bad it gets. Especially if you've been smoking for 5, 10, 15 years. You've become so accustomed to such subpar physical health and how you look every single morning. And I'm not saying, you know, if you're pretty or not.


I'm saying the hollows in your eyes, how sunken you are, how less awake you look, how much pain you could physically be in that you're not even registering as something you could get rid of if you didn't smoke a cigarette for 7 to 10 days. I mean, it is a quick rebound. and having that.


Gosh, I can't even imagine if I smoked a cigarette right now and how I'd physically feel waking up tomorrow. Like I don't want to go there. I really don't.


And I think another piece of advice that I would always kind of make fun of myself and say, “You know, get over it.” I always go back to there was a time when we were kids. And yeah, we didn't have iPhones and we were outside playing and all the things. But we also weren't drinking and smoking. We can do this. We used to have fun on the playground.


And maybe that is simplifying a really complicated issue to such a small thought. But I really do try to lean into that when it feels insurmountable to quit. I'm like, “There was a time where we were having the time of our lives and we were not thinking about alcohol. We were not thinking about nicotine. We were not smoking and we could still have fun.”


Jessi:

That freedom, the creativity, the imagination can be so helpful because when we're in addiction, it's like just a one track mind. Like any problem we have to go smoking, go to drinking. And so it's really fun to access those hidden parts of us or forgotten parts or maybe even new parts that rise up from the renewal process.


So I think that's an absolutely beautiful story and I'm so happy for you. I'm wondering do you have a quick word of advice for somebody that's in it? Maybe they're like you. Maybe they've had this cycle. Or they've tried to quit and end up coming back and are feeling mistrust in themselves or doubt. What word of advice would you have for them?


Michelle:

So, I am such a firm believer now in nicotine patches. I tell everyone that. And my biggest piece of advice besides giving them a go if you haven't done so already is read the back of the package. You calculate how many weeks and how you should step bladder down in the amount or size of nicotine patch you downgrade to.


Read that. It tells you exactly when you should downgrade and how long you should be using these patches for. Do the whole process because I feel like I ended up smoking for about another year from that first patch attempt and that could have been one year sooner quitting for good if I had stuck with it.


So invest in yourself. It's not cheap. But go do the math. Figure out how long you should be on it and how many patches you need to buy. Buy them all at once.


I put them in a little tin, if you will, on the counter in my bathroom. And it was this thick. One per day for weeks and weeks and weeks. And every day I came in, slapped it on. I felt like I was good and totally totally quit for good probably halfway into it. But I just did it until all those patches were gone. And that's what finally worked for me.


Jessi:

Yeah, that's great advice. I'm not familiar with it, so I wouldn't know anything about it. And I think it's so cool how we can find our own way. It's about, like I said, getting creative, trying new things.


Michelle:

Yeah. And keep trying. I mean, that's the biggest piece of advice. I'm sure people say that all the time. But if you want to do this, there's no shame in failing to do it and trying it again. That's more admirable than most people can say about things that they attempt and feel embarrassed by not achieving.


So, if you have tried and failed, try and try again. And if you fail again, keep trying. Just keep trying and you will get there eventually.


Jessi:

Well, thank you so much. I want to hear more about your work and how people can get in touch with you.


Michelle:

Absolutely. So, my entire journey is documented on TikTok if you want to watch it from start to finish. I have a playlist on my profile. My TikTok is Michelle Knutson.


And you can see all of those attempts in the flesh. It's probably 150 videos. So you can see me count up in days, admit to smoking again, not posting, not owning the smoking experience, and then trying again, over and over again. And see the final success there.


So find me there, find me on Instagram, same username, Michelle Knutson. And please DM me. Reach out if you need any help or suggestions. I am certainly here to help and answer.


Jessi:

Well, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story, being vulnerable. It's something that can be really difficult to talk about.


And I know you're well on your way now and I'm so happy for you. So, thank you for coming on and sharing.


Michelle:

Of course. Thank you for having me. And I hope anyone that is listening out there is going to give it another go and that this is the time that sticks. So, thanks for having me.


Jessi:

Absolutely. Take care everyone. See you next week.



End of Interview


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