Hi, welcome to the You Can Quit Smoking podcast, where we go over stories of success with overcoming smoking addiction. Many people have moved through this radical transformation and use smoking as an opportunity for inner growth, with deeper self-awareness and a greater capacity for compassion. So many have done it and you can quit smoking, too. I'm your host, Jessi Hartnett, founder of Honor Your Heart.

Jessi:
Hi everyone, welcome back. I'm here today with Nick and I'm so excited to talk with him about his experience. Nick, can you introduce yourself to the audience, please?


Nick:
Yeah, firstly, Jessi, I just want to say thanks so much for inviting me on to your amazing podcast and I love everything that you're doing. I think talking about this and normalizing the journey both into smoking tobacco and marijuana. And then fighting your way out of it and I think it is a fight. I think it's really important. And I think there's a lot of shame surrounded by it. There certainly is in my journey. But I'm really keen as well to try in through speaking my truth in my journey in relation to smoking and coming out the other side, to hopefully touch people and give them the hope and the optimism that is possible for them, too.

Who am I right now? Well, I'm a 50-year-old man from the UK. I have my own business with my partner Jess called the 3E Space. We're both qualified life coaches. We're qualified in a number of different modalities such as coaching skills, transformational life coaching, neural linguistic programming, hypnotherapy, breath work, EFT tapping, and a number of other somatic tools.

And when I say somatic, what I mean is ways of working with our body. Because what I've come to believe through my own smoking journey is that actually it's about working with all the parts of ourselves. Even parts of us that we may not be aware of, they have something to say about us as smokers that can really give us the keys to that freedom that we're seeking.


Jessi:
Well, I can tell you have a lot of expertise and knowledge and from life experience. So, walk us through your experience with smoking then. Where did it kind of start for you and how did you develop the habit?


Nick:
So, one of my earliest memories is a summer's day with the sun shining into the front room window with the curtains closed but there was just a tiny bit of light getting in. And my granddad and my dad are chatting. I must have been four, five, 6 years old, very young. But I was transfixed by the haze of smoke moving in the sunlight and how it looked. I loved how my granddad put together his pipe. He was a pipe smoker. My dad smoked cigarettes. And I just found it all so intriguing. I was attracted to it from that early. I first tried a cigarette as a lot of us do. I took one of my dads, ran off with it with a packet of matches and coughed my lungs up. [laughter]


Jessi:
Been there. [laughter]


Nick:
Exactly. But nevertheless, I never really lost that childhood attraction to it. But I couldn't make sense of it. It was just something that I felt looked really cool. It was something which back then; in the late 70s and 80s was as I grew up as a boy. A lot of my heroes, people like film stars like Clint Eastwood, always had a cigar or a cigarette. Even sports stars that I admired, some of them smoke cigarettes. Now what, in addition to everything I've described also, made me really become a smoker? Well, that's a different story.

Even though I tried it as quite a young boy, I was quite a talented sportsman. And I entered an elite sporting pathway from the age of 10 in football, which is more commonly known as soccer on your side of the pond. So obviously smoking was looked down on. And it was a sacrifice that I was happy to make as part of that journey. But for me, as a sensitive man as well, I felt a bit at odds personality wise. I wasn't a natural sportsman off the pitch. And I really struggled in the professional environment the further I went up it. So for me actually when I started smoking again, I was actually an apprentice professional sportsman. I'd unfortunately had injury, a long-term knee injury, not long after I left school to go professional. And that meant I had a lot of time on my hands. I was having to deal with a lot of difficult emotions that as a young man, I didn't have any skills of how to process. So what I found through smoking, probably because of that childhood fixation, was comfort. In the first instance, I found the comfort of taking 5 minutes to myself when my emotional experience became too difficult to bear on its own and I couldn't distract myself any other way.

When I came out of professional sports not long after that, smoking had just become normal for me. And as I said, it was still a time then at 16, 17, 18 years old in the early '90s where it was still pretty normal, you know, in bars, in clubs. I think you could even still smoke in the workplace at that time in the UK. So, it just became normal. But I think it was only really when I went to university that in addition to smoking, I'd always experimented with alcohol, but it just didn't give me what I needed. But when I discovered marijuana, it did. Because the longer time went on, the more emotional pain I started to feel from not just my sporting rejection, but from other things in my childhood which perhaps weren't so savory and so attractive. And the buzz I got from marijuana was twofold really.

Firstly, I was able to access joy and creativity and openness. And what I thought was authentic connection with those I was smoking with in a way that I was too shy and found too difficult to do if I wasn't high. But after the initial kind of high and all of the giggling and the messing around, you would hit this nice plateau of just comfort. I could never really feel any of my emotions at either end of the spectrum. I couldn't really feel joy and I couldn't really feel any of my trauma or anything like that. But I could just feel this kind of blissed out “Everything's okay.” It was my crux for the best part of 30 years in the case of tobacco, but in the case of marijuana, about 20 years, smoking daily. So, it's been a journey to understand what a big part of my coping mechanisms emotionally as a man they've both been for me.


Jessi:
Yeah, I can resonate a lot with that kind of numbness. That's what I would get a lot from smoking pot. And I loved it because I could just tune out the noise. But I think it's important that you pointed out there's a cost to that. You can give up the joy. You can give up the desired emotions. So, how did you kind of come to terms with your emotions? There tends to be ones that we want and ones that we don't want that we push away. So, how are you able to integrate some of those unwanted emotions?


Nick:
In many ways, I'm still learning to do that now as we navigate our lives as human beings. I tend not to think of emotions as good or bad anymore. I just tend to think of them as things that we feel. And the biggest question I ask myself now, as the 50-year-old professional sitting in front of you is, are the emotions that I'm feeling real and appropriate to what's going on in my life right now?

And I think for a long time as a man, a lot of what had happened to me in childhood, which I'll briefly touch on. Things such as corporal punishment at school and at home for misbehavior. A church upbringing, which was very much surrounded about behavior and very clear shamed driven guidelines around good or bad. There was not a lot of room for curiosity. And I think what I learned from my father as well, because he was also a teacher in my school, was this is the way you are professionally: open, jovial, not a care in the world. And at home that's where you let all of your demons out. That's really in very brief the experience I had.

What professional sports taught me on the pathway was; I can't be who I am. I have to be a certain version of myself to be lovable. So I think when I went through university and I was numbing out those experiences from childhood and adolescence, which of course I had no awareness of at the time. When I left university just about scraping my qualification, I was working in London. I married early and got myself in an abusive relationship because I didn't feel I was worth anything more than that. And obviously the more unhappy my life got, the more I needed to cope. It wasn't really until that marriage finished and I had a breakdown that actually I started to address everything that had happened to me up to that point. And I was in my late 20s at that time.

So there was, in some ways still is, a lot of things to go through to understand my emotional experience. I call it reparenting. There's a lot of what I need to do and do do on a daily basis now to continue to reparent the younger versions of me that didn't get what they needed or got too much of what they never should have experienced. When we honor our upbringing, whatever was good, bad or indifferent about it. When we really face those parts of ourselves honestly in the mirror and get support to do that. It doesn't have to be professional support. But just I think it's about as humans, we're wired for connection, but too often we abandon who we really are to achieve that connection. So unlearning that temptation and being okay with not being liked by people or understood by people. But trusting that out there somewhere there are people that will love and accept me for who I am just as I will with them. And that's how you find your people and there's so much emotional healing in that.


Jessi:
You have so much gold in there. Just the idea that we're continually growing, that there's not an end point can kind of be scary because it's like, "Oh man, there's so much work. There's so much farther to go." But it's actually exciting and adventurous and kind of normalizes the experience, the struggle. It just really opened me up when I was like, "Oh, I don't need to be perfect. I just need to keep up and maintain and be curious and discover more and go through the layers." So, I really love that part.

I also appreciate how it was almost like you had this kind of crisis where things were falling apart for you. But it was a blessing for you because you were able to finally look at, “Hey, what's going on here?” Because I think we get comfortable in these habits. We think that it does so much for us, but when we actually are pushed to the brink in struggle, then we can kind of go through it. Because I think a lot of us just don't want to deal with the struggle. That's part of the smoking experience. You're avoiding it, but somehow it compounds it. It's kind of like backwards. That's what addiction really is. It takes away the thing that you go look to it for. So, I think that's a really amazing story and you've eally explained your process and taking it piece by piece and getting back to who you are.

I love that it's not about self-improvement. It's about being authentic again. And that can be so hard for us, especially those of us that have been through trauma that have learned that it's not safe to be who we are. And I loved how you framed it all around connection because I found for myself that addiction was really getting in my way of connection and it was breaking my heart. I was so isolated. Did you kind of feel isolated when you were smoking or was it something that you were doing with friends? Was it something that you were doing alone? What did that look like?


Nick:
Oh, all of it. I mean, I would say the habits that I had worked for me until they stopped working for me. And given that I smoked tobacco for nearly 30 years and marijuana for nearly 20, it was probably only a third of that time that it was really working for me more than it wasn't. After that first breakdown, there was still that emotional crutch. But because I was evolving, my relationship to those two drugs changed as a result of that. So there was almost like an internal struggle. The parts of me that wanted me to continue the habit and to continue to numb out were fighting the parts of me that wanted to heal and grow and evolve. And I say the word parts on purpose.

I don't know whether you or any of your listeners are familiar with the internal family systems model of therapy. It was a model of therapy designed by an amazing American chap called Richard Schwarz. And it was really to help. He came up with this idea that rather than being like a single personality, we all have our own internal family system of subpersonalities and different traits. And sometimes these traits conflict with one another. And he said that when we go through trauma and when we seek solutions to trauma, usually through something habitual which will soothe us, which can then go into addiction. These parts, they take on roles for us that he calls burdens. There was a time in our life where we needed to do the thing that we're doing. But when that time is finished, that part doesn't know that we're now safe enough to put those habits down. And I really like that way of looking at it because for me, for so long, even when I began my therapeutic journey of recovery and started thinking, “I don't want to do this anymore.” There was still another 10, 15 years of doing it and trying to quit. I was having various degrees of success because really I was mostly going on willpower alone. It felt real but would fall away really quickly. And I think that it was only through a long period of learning that I need the tools, I need the support, I need to know my why. I also need to have coping mechanisms to deal with the cravings which is the hardest part of it, I believe.


Jessi:
I like that framework. I kind of think of that too in terms of mythic imagination. That it's hard to have a single identity and it's not realistic. We have many parts and some of those parts we're not going to like. It's okay though. It's part of the whole human experience. So, I think that's beautifully said and and just these old patterns that are tough to get rid of, old beliefs. I feel like the mind just craves that predictability and that pattern. And it's hard for us to let go because it makes us feel safe. So, I think that's a really great way to explain it and a good breakdown because I had heard that term before but wasn't totally familiar. So, thank you for that explanation.

It sounds like you had to practice at quitting. Can you kind of talk through that process a little bit more like what that looked like?


Nick:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, as I said, to begin with, it was just “Right, that's it. I'm done.” And it would feel like as easy as that. Even if I had marijuana and cigarettes in the house, I might in a moment of clarity just throw it all away. And there were sometimes I would do that and last a day or two. There was sometimes I'd do that and last 10 minutes. And then I’d be sticking my hand into the bin to find it out. You know, the shame of that kind of behavior happening so quickly. And there was the internal dialogue of “What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Why can't I Why can't I quit? Why can't I quit?” All of those horrible voices that I now have so much compassion towards because those were manifestations of these parts that I'm talking about. That just didn't want me to give up that habit because they were so scared of who I might be without them. And I think that's a big part of it. I do.

And I love what in your podcast stake, tagline if you like, as I understand it. You talk about tobacco addiction over here which is scientifically proven to be addictive because of nicotine. Whereas marijuana, there's not really the scientific evidence to necessarily say that. If you look at either of those things and many other things as well such as food, shopping, sex, whatever it might be. I think anything can become addictive if it's a coping mechanism to hide from your feelings. It's just much more difficult to prove scientifically. So I think that's why shining a compassionate therapeutic lens on your experience and to say instead of “What's wrong with me? Why can't I quit this?” and focusing on the problem in hand. Actually being able to focus on not “What's wrong with me?” but “What happened to me and what did I make that mean about myself that means these crutches are so fundamental to me being able to survive in life?” and I use that word intentionally, that I can't really let go of that habit. So a lot of trial and error for a long time.


Jessi:
And then asking also, “Is it true?” That was a huge shift for me. Because the beliefs were so deeply ingrained and I had to start questioning them. Did you go through that process as well?

Nick:
Yeah. Well look, a cursory internet search will tell you that, broadly speaking, 95% of everything we think, feel and behave like in terms of our choices is all learned behavior that repeats itself over and over and over and over again. So unless you consciously try and break that programming, break those neural relationships in your brain and the associated feelings in your body, you're going to find it incredibly difficult to make changes that you desire.

Ultimately, that's what made me get so interested and ultimately end up qualifying in what I’m qualified in. Because it's using these tools on a person- centered basis, which allows someone to work with their own experience. And almost like pull apart their own internal wiring to find healing in order to rewire it in a way that's much more empowering and sustainable for them. I think it's a really delicate and nuanced process that maybe we don't give enough credit to. It feels so hard.



Jessi:
I would agree with that. It's not easy stuff. I like that imagery too. Just pulling it all out, like “What's going on here?” And then having that power to be intentional with how you design your life. That was huge for me because I feel like a lot of us, especially those of us who come from addiction in the family. It just seems like it's this disease model where it's like we are infected and we are having to do this because it's in our genetics. And I think that's really disempowering and disheartening. And that's why people just kind of resign themselves to it because they don't

understand the power they have. And I'm including myself in this. It took a long time for me to come into this. I wasn't comfortable with that power to be honest.


Nick:

That's a whole another conversation: dealing with fears of a different kind.


Jessi:
Yes. So I I think that's just wonderfully said. I do kind of want to get more into the nitty-gritty. So you said that you tried willpower and that was ineffective. And you were losing trust in yourself and was disappointed in yourself. So how did you shift that narrative with the self-talk? And then ultimately what is the way that you were able to quit in a sustainable way?



Nick:
As I said we talked for me personally it was a 10 to 15 year journey. I'm now on my fifth year. It will be five years exactly completely nicotine free on the 27th of December this year. See these these dates stick in because it's that meaningful to us, isn't it? And what if I work backwards from that? I'd already quit marijuana about 2 3 years before that because that was almost the drug of the two that I had to address first. Because it was the drug that was causing me the most problem to actually live my life. As I got into my 30s and beyond, when I started to experience things certainly in the arena of paranoia and anxiety and worry, which I know doesn't affect everybody. But it certainly began to affect me in a way that was unsustainable. I focused on that first.

So, there was the therapeutic part of that, which began with person- centered counseling for me. It was just actually having someone witness me in my truth as a man and not try and fix me. But just to hold space for me to be able to get it all out. From that point of view onwards, it was then, “Okay, what are some of the tools I can do on my own that doesn't require a therapist? Well, I can journal my thoughts.” I learned about the fact that I have an inner child and I began to reflect on my childhood experiences and the relationship that they had with smoking.

And started to kind of develop a relationship of a more caring nature internally. So that every time I lit a cigarette or rolled a joint, I would try and insert a breaker of “I'm going to consciously just put it down now. I've rolled it and I'm not going to light it.” And just start to create separation in the smallest of ways. When I ran out, I'd usually kind of stock in before I ran out. But I started to just let it run out and start to almost do that rewiring I was talking about. But doing it in a way was compassionate where part of me knew it wasn't just all or nothing. I wasn't going from where I was to nothing straight away. I was just starting to bring some curiosity and exploration to the process rather than it feeling like “Oh my god. This is the biggest test I've ever faced in my life and it is pass or fail and everything rides on this.” Which I think a lot of us do when we think about quitting.

Moving further on from that and as my curiosity around those two drugs grew, I started to connect with other smokers and join smoking groups. And I started to have conversations around it. I started to feel that with my experience, I wasn't the exception. I was very much the rule. And that again made me feel like “There's nothing wrong with me here. I've just got myself into these patterns.”

But I think for me ultimately the biggest turning point was actually “What is my why? Why do I not want to smoke marijuana anymore? And then ultimately tobacco?” It was when I was able to say, okay, everything I've already explained in this conversation so far, I'd learned all of that. “What's my why? I want to know who I am without it more than who I am with it.” The pandemic hit. I was in a job at the time, at a manufacturing company, which was deemed by the UK government to be an essential service. I worked through the pandemic. And doing that and seeing the stress of it for a lot of people that were experiencing some of the kind of stresses which I could relate to from a lifetime of them really kind of came to a head. And I just thought “Life can end any time.” And I know we know that anyway but we don't always feel it. And it was a really transformational year for me where I just thought, “I think with all this groundwork I've been doing carefully over the past few years, I think I might be ready here to really see what I'm capable of in this life.”

I got everything prepared for about three months leading up to the 27th of December. One of my favorite times of year for smoking tobacco, because I'd already given up marijuana by this point, was Christmas. So, I wanted to have one last Christmas as part of my exit strategy. And I allowed myself that treat. I wanted to have one last birthday, which for me was in October. But I planned it all out of the groups that I'd been in for a while. I said, "This is the date I'm planning. Would anyone like to join me in a peer support group and quit on the same day?" I had my therapist. I'd taken the time off work to allow myself to get through the the kind of 72-96 hours where the physical symptoms are their worst when you're ridding yourself of nicotine. And as I said, I was also trying to sort of create gaps and had been doing it for a while.

So it was a very slow process for me, but ultimately I think it was really understanding my why. Understanding for me personally that I took on these habits because they allowed me to cope with a pain that I couldn't cope with at the time. But having learned other methods to cope with my pain, I realized I no longer needed it. And therefore, I just needed all these things I've just spoken about just to help me exit the door, which I was more than ready to exit.

Jessi:

A lot of good guidance in there: just taking the judgment out of it, seeing it for what it is, making intentional choice, connecting with that future version of yourself, using that imagination. “So what would life look like?” And use that as inspiration and motivation instead of just “I'm bad, I shouldn't be doing this.” That is a huge shift and obviously yields results. That's amazing that you've put all that behind you after so many years and done it in a way that's enriched your life more than just quitting smoking. That's rippled out in all sides of you. So I think that's just incredible advice.

I'm wondering if you have any final words? You've had a lot in there, but just someone that's listening, they're like, "Yeah, that's great for you, but I don't know about me." Maybe they have doubt in themselves. Maybe they've tried and failed. Maybe they're on the fence, “I don't really know if I want to.” I think that's really cool that you address that that resistance is part of the experience. So, what would you kind of say to someone that's struggling?


Nick:

If you're struggling right now listening to this, I really see you and I feel you and I honor your experience. It's real and it's valid. That's the first thing I would say. And really allow that to hit your heart. But that internal dialogue as I've touched on already in this podcast. I think can you bring curiosity to your experience and create separation from those voices and maybe ask yourself “What part of me is saying these things?”

One of the beautiful metaphors I love from IFS (Internal Family Systems) is that if we give ourselves the privilege to imagine ourselves as the sun in the sky. The sun in the sky is our self. It's who we are at our core and it's always there whether we can see and feel it or not. But the weather is always changing and sometimes that obscures the sun. And if all we experience is the weather and then we can easily mistake the weather for who we are. And I think that so much of the work I continue to do personally and now professionally is really about clearing the weather for people as part of their quitting smoking, journey if that's part of what they come to see me about.


Jessi:
Oh, that's pure poetry. I love that. So, how can people connect with you. And if they're interested in working with you, what services do you provide? Do you want to talk more about your work and your projects?


Nick:
Yeah, sure. I think I briefly mentioned it at the beginning. So my partner Jess and I, we created a business called the 3E Space. Literally the number three and the the letter E. So you can connect with our website. You can connect with us on Instagram and my personal Instagram handle is @NickEdgarCoaching all one word. The three E incidentally are to explore, to energize, and to empower. And that's the process that we bring to all of the work we do.

So, we work with clients on our one-to-one programs over six months and they're called reclaim yourself. It's really about exactly what I've described here, that peeling back the layers of why you are who you are today. And that for some that might include being a smoker, tobacco user, marijuana user, and being able to compassionately explore that. And then use some of the tools that I mentioned previously. Everything from hip therapy to breath work to NLP to allow the client to work with their own experience to kind of speed up a little bit some of that rewiring process. So that's our one-to-one program.

We do group programs. My partner is a child of an alcoholic. So she does a lot of work for COAs. I think a lot of people that often fall into tobacco and marijuana use also have addiction in the form of alcohol in the family as well. So she does that kind of work. I'm very much about kind of people that have been in and involved around high performance that are sensitive that have become people pleasers even if they've become successful outside of themselves. They have these secret habits which might be tobacco smoking or marijuana and they want to put that to bed.

We also run sort of day retreats. We have an online community where we do a monthly breath work together. And we do things like group coaching. And I have a monthly men's space. And we also finally work with organizations. So we bring some of this approach to working with school trusts, for example, in education where we help and empower teachers to understand their own experience. A lot of teachers and other public service workers take on a lot of emotions that aren't theirs and it's a big deal to have to cope with that. So very often they find things like tobacco and marijuana to kind of soothe their own experiences. But we also work with leadership in general and we apply this kind of IFS model of self leadership, the idea of the self.

We don't have to be in this life you know. And I know I accept that we all have different levels of privilege. But nevertheless I believe that we all have choice and the ability to with support with encouragement, with learning, all things being equal, become the best version of ourselves. and I'm just really passionate about that. So, I hope that's a a brief a brief enough synopsis of everything.


Jessi:
Yeah, that's a lot there and so many different options for people. And I love that you brought up the somatic work as well. Do you just want to talk about it? I know we're kind of ending up here, but just a little bit of the somatics because it's so powerful.


Nick:
I'm so glad you said that. I think again this was part of the reason why I probably struggled for longer than I needed to to get rid of these habits. Because as a society, I think we're very focused on the mind. We talk a lot and think a lot about mindset. And we live a lot of our lives in our minds. When we've experienced trauma, we tend to lose that connection to the body. We spend a lot of time up in our heads and in our minds and we try to problem solve things like anxiety. We try and think our way out of anxiety but anxiety is a stress response. It's just part of us that' s attached to our amygdala, our vagus nerve, which will effectively tell us that we're not safe regardless of whether we are actually safe or not. And it's not something we can logically think our way out of because that part of our brain shuts down. And all we're left with is that most primitive part of who we are: that fight, flight, freeze, or fawn response.

So for me somatics, whether it's breath work, which is my favorite. Because it's the most accessible, we all breathe. When you can learn to harness that as a tool for well-being and to soothe yourself when you're in anxiety, to take yourself out of your brain and your thinking into your body and your feelings and create safety for yourself in the body, that's the biggest game change. And it doesn't just have to be breath work and more active activities. Something like hypnotherapy is a really good way of speaking to the mind and the body through changing brain wave states. And there's so many other things you can do as well: doing yoga, slow movement, tai chi. There are all sorts of different ways we can connect with our body in the present moment. But yeah, thank you for mentioning that because that's a massive part I think of coming home to ourselves, learning to become who we're really here to be.


Jessi:
Absolutely. And breaking those thought patterns like you were talking about. It's part of the rewiring process. It's very very helpful.


Nick:
100 percent. And if you're finding that difficult to accept, a lot of people do because it can be quite new. What I would say is, if you think about the fact that in the wild if an animal is chased by a predator and it narrowly escapes you will see it shake and move its body. But in quite a quick time, if just a few seconds after doing that, it will just be eating the grass as if nothing had ever happened because they've completed that experience. With humans we don't often get the privilege, especially as little people and especially if we're in traumatic or or abusive environments. We don't get the privilege of completing our emotional experiences which is why this kind of thing happens.

So this is why the body is so important and not just exercise in the traditional sense of health. For some people, if your nervous system is wired towards hypervigilance and anxiety, going to the gym and elevating your heart rate, doing a big hard sprint and a run and lifting loads of weights isn't actually going to calm your nervous system necessarily. What you really need is that softer movement, really connecting with your body in a different way that's actually going to rather than give you a dopamine hit. Just start to release some of that cortisol and actually just allow you to feel more present.


Jessi:
It's difficult to describe the power of it until you experience it. So, I think that's awesome that you lead people in breath work and some of those modalities that can really be life-changing. Guys, it's beautiful, amazing, and can just completely change your perspective on life. So, I just want to thank you so much for coming on, telling your story, being vulnerable, and opening up. It's really hard for a lot of people to talk about this. So, I really value your experience and your wisdom and your willingness to show up and share.


Nick:
Thank you so much for inviting me, Jessi. It's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege. And as I said, if any of this resonates with you as a listener, just connect. You know connect: connect with me or connect with others. Because you're not alone.


Jessi:
Absolutely. Well, thank you again and take care everyone. I'll see you next week.


End of interview.


Jessi:

If you found hope or a new perspective in today's conversation, make sure you don't miss any future episodes! Hit the 'Follow' or 'Subscribe' button on your podcast app right now. It's the best way to get inspired every week and ensure you keep receiving the tools and stories you need on your journey to live smoke-free. Thank you for listening, and I'll talk to you next time